I just got notice from SPOT Tracking that they are increasing fees again for my next annual renewal. A few years ago, they added a "network fee" of $9.99 to my bill. That is now going up to $14.99. It looks like for tracking service, yearly fees will go from around $162 to $199.99. So another $50 per year.

Flying out west in the mountains and Great Basin as we do here in Utah, we have to have GPS tracking devices. With the yearly pricing now around $215 per year for only basic tracking every 10 minutes without altitude reporting, is it time to consider one of the other better featured GPS tracking devices and services?

Don't get me wrong, I have been grateful for having my SPOT with me flying for the last 9+ years.

The snow is finally melting...now if only the rain would stop!
Bruno - B4

I called spot and told them I wanted to cancel my subscription due to the price increase. They offered to not raise my yearly fee if I didn't cancel.

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 11:51:21 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I just got notice from SPOT Tracking that they are increasing fees again for my next annual renewal. A few years ago, they added a "network fee" of $9.99 to my bill. That is now going up to $14.99. It looks like for tracking service, yearly fees will go from around $162 to $199.99. So another $50 per year.
>
> Flying out west in the mountains and Great Basin as we do here in Utah, we have to have GPS tracking devices. With the yearly pricing now around $215 per year for only basic tracking every 10 minutes without altitude reporting, is it time to consider one of the other better featured GPS tracking devices and services?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have been grateful for having my SPOT with me flying for the last 9+ years.
>
> The snow is finally melting...now if only the rain would stop!
> Bruno - B4

Bruno - Understand your dilemma...I fly out of Moriarty and switched over from a SPOT to the Garmin inReach about 2 years ago and I have never looked back. It works great and is very reliable. I send messages out as as needed and during the winter I suspend service which helps me save a few dollars as I am charged $5.51/mo during the winter months when service is suspended.. I also use it for hiking and it has a lot of wonderful capabilities, so to me it is worth every penny I pay for the service each month. There are several service plans available, so do your research and I am sure you will find a plan that would work best for you! Thanks - Renny

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 11:22:07 AM UTC-7, C2 wrote:
> I called spot and told them I wanted to cancel my subscription due to the price increase. They offered to not raise my yearly fee if I didn't cancel..

I too called Spot told them I wanted to cancel due to price increase and they waived the increase. They later this year they will have a new device with more features than an InReach at a lower price point. I told them what I wish they had was a Sat phone with same tracking features as Spot gen 3 or better yet an InReach that one could also male calls from on a as call basis.

So Renny, you say you switched 2 years ago, what exactly are your costs, up front and yearly? I tried to look at cost comparisons and totally get confused with how they represent it: 19.99/month plus .30/fix for tracking seems pretty high if I fly 40+ 4 hour flights per year or more. Inquiring minds want to know😀 Even with the increase it's still less than 15/month. Or am I missing something?

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 10:25:47 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> So Renny, you say you switched 2 years ago, what exactly are your costs, up front and yearly? I tried to look at cost comparisons and totally get confused with how they represent it: 19.99/month plus .30/fix for tracking seems pretty high if I fly 40+ 4 hour flights per year or more. Inquiring minds want to know😀 Even with the increase it's still less than 15/month. Or am I missing something?

Cliff - I am guessing you are in the US, so here are my costs:
Delorme Plan 3 (unlimited tracking every 10 minutes) the cost including taxes and fees = $38.72/month
When service is suspended the cost = $5.51/mo

I typically suspend service for 4 months each year and pay the $38.72/month for the other 8 months. Depending on your requirements and the weather in you area, you may only need the service for 6 months each year while others may want to use it 12 months per year. If you want more frequent tracking than every 10 minutes, it will obviously cost more each month....

Finally, Garmin has introduced new inReach SE and Explorer models whcih are now available, so you can check with the various soaring suppliers on equipment pricing. The previous models are still out there, so you may be able to get a break in the price. Also, on occasion there are rebates which would also help lower the price. I have the inReach Explorer version with some very nice navigation features which I really like and use for hiking...Thx - Renny

I have the recreation plan and that costs me $24.95/mo. That provides unlimited tracking and 40 texts a month.

Last year I upgraded to the SE from the older unit, so I also have the safety plan ($11.95/mo) on the older unit for my wife to use on retrieves. That allows 10 texts a month and will be invaluable if we're both in the boonies trying to get connected.

Renny, you might want to update your plan because that extra $14/mo might not be getting you anything. :-)

-Tom

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
> Delorme Plan 3 (unlimited tracking every 10 minutes) the cost including taxes and fees = $38.72/month

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:09:05 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I have the recreation plan and that costs me $24.95/mo. That provides unlimited tracking and 40 texts a month.
>
> Last year I upgraded to the SE from the older unit, so I also have the safety plan ($11.95/mo) on the older unit for my wife to use on retrieves. That allows 10 texts a month and will be invaluable if we're both in the boonies trying to get connected.
>
> Renny, you might want to update your plan because that extra $14/mo might not be getting you anything. :-)
>
> -Tom
>
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
> > Delorme Plan 3 (unlimited tracking every 10 minutes) the cost including taxes and fees = $38.72/month

Tom,
I will definitely take a good look!
Thanks for the heads-up!
Renny

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:18:49 AM UTC-6, Renny wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:09:05 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > I have the recreation plan and that costs me $24.95/mo. That provides unlimited tracking and 40 texts a month.
> >
> > Last year I upgraded to the SE from the older unit, so I also have the safety plan ($11.95/mo) on the older unit for my wife to use on retrieves. That allows 10 texts a month and will be invaluable if we're both in the boonies trying to get connected.
> >
> > Renny, you might want to update your plan because that extra $14/mo might not be getting you anything. :-)
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
> > > Delorme Plan 3 (unlimited tracking every 10 minutes) the cost including taxes and fees = $38.72/month
>
> Tom,
> I will definitely take a good look!
> Thanks for the heads-up!
> Renny

OK..As we continue to beat this wonderful subject to death, let me recommend this URL from Cumulus Soaring whichcontains a lot of plan info...

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/garmin.htm

Here is another URL from Paul Rende with contract info...

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme/inReachSE-Aviation-FreedomAndAnnualContractPlans.pdf

Now, one clarification regarding the plan I have been using...I do not actually have unlimited tracking with the Delorme 3 "Plan," but based on 10 minute tracking I would have to fly more than 102.6 hours in one month before I would go over my 8,000 bytes/mo that I am allowed (before having to pay extra), so at least for me, it is essentially unlimited. For those who fly more hours each month, or want a more frequent tracking interval, a different plan might be more appropriate.

Again, Paul's excellent charts at Cumulus Soaring have all of the details.
Thx - Renny

Thanks Renny, yes I'm in Prescott Az and fly alot at Moriarty each year. So to summarize for me to use the 10 min tracking with Delorme/ Garmin, it will cost 300+ a year. Granted I will get text msg I don't have with spot. With spot, I get the same 10 min tracking, and just pre set txt for 200/yr and no up front costs for equipment(I got my spot for free with sign up). Just trying to check actual costs.

You also get (with Delorme/Garmin) altitude, speed and heading as part of the tracking for those following you. With Spot, those following don't know if you are circling at 500 ft. AGL or cruising at 17.5 MSL. You also have the option of increasing your tracking interval to 5,2, or even 1 minute with InReach/Garmin. Finally there are enterprise pricing plans that allow for much more data and less texting, encouraging 1 minute tracking in the main flying months. This can be rolled down to $5 per month maintenance plans when not flying.

Sean

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 6:12:56 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> You also get (with Delorme/Garmin) altitude, speed and heading as part of the tracking for those following you. With Spot, those following don't know if you are circling at 500 ft. AGL or cruising at 17.5 MSL. You also have the option of increasing your tracking interval to 5,2, or even 1 minute with InReach/Garmin. Finally there are enterprise pricing plans that allow for much more data and less texting, encouraging 1 minute tracking in the main flying months. This can be rolled down to $5 per month maintenance plans when not flying.
>
> Sean

First....what Sean said....

Also, over the years I have found that the tracking with the inReach has been more reliable than with the SPOT. I flew with both units for a season and often noticed that it was not uncommon for the SPOT to miss a 10 minute update and sometimes it missed tracking hits for as long as 20 or 30 minutes before a "hit" registered. I am sure that it is possible, but I do not believe I have ever seen the inReach miss a 10 min tracking hit. At the end of the day it all depends on "what" you really want a device to "do," what level of reliability is acceptable and of course, how much you want to spend.

Whatever you decide to do, always be sure you carry your device and turn it on. A few years ago we had a missing pilot (this was a different incident than Mark's earlier post) and we had no hits from SPOT or inReach or any other device. It turns out he had bailed out in a remote area (with no cell service) and fortunately, although injured, was able to walk to a road and was found. The reason we could not track him......his SPOT had been left in the hangar...

Now, be safe out there and ALWAYS carry your "device" of choice, your survival kit, a cell phone, etc, etc, etc. Thx - Renny

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 5:12:56 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> You also get (with Delorme/Garmin) altitude, speed and heading as part of the tracking for those following you. With Spot, those following don't know if you are circling at 500 ft. AGL or cruising at 17.5 MSL. You also have the option of increasing your tracking interval to 5,2, or even 1 minute with InReach/Garmin. Finally there are enterprise pricing plans that allow for much more data and less texting, encouraging 1 minute tracking in the main flying months. This can be rolled down to $5 per month maintenance plans when not flying.
>
> Sean

The value of altitude information is over-rated, IMO. I tell my ground crew (wife) all you need to know is if I am moving or not (the faster the better); if I stay in a small area for awhile (30 min or 3 fixes) I am having problems and to stay alert. If two or more fixes are in the same spot I have landed and you should start a retrieve.

I know of one crew that did have altitude data; the pilot was very low and struggling (more than once). The pilot saved himself every time and made it back, but the crew was worrying the entire time.

Tom

So Sean, exactly what do you pay a year with going to the 5.95/mo for 5 months a year? I'm still not convinced and believe that the "perceived" value is not worth it. Not trying to convince any one else to switch back. I just know it (spot) works for me. We also have a spot Trace, in our 170b. My partner bought that and it automatically starts tracking when moved. Sends a text to him every time I fly:) And no one is following my flights, they will look when I'm late or missing. In the 10 years or so I have been using it if it has missed a track I would be able to count them on one hand, also I have had to use the help (not sos) to initiate ground retrieve when flying out of Ely and landing out in remote areas once. Every other land out (about 3 year) I have been able to make contact before landing or after. Ive still sent a help msg just to insure they have my exact location.

A bit of creep, but it is related to 'stuff you can buy to manage adverse contingencies' and InReach.

I was planning to fly gliders outside of North America and shopping for Travel Insurance. I read the fine print of several policies and found that the Medical Evacuation Benefit (and other medical benefits) are EXCLUDED if the accident occurs in a non-commercial aircraft.

Then I found that the policy offered by GEOS (related to the InReach SOS button) INCLUDES incidents that occur in 'licensed aircraft'. That includes sailplanes (but probably excludes paragliders etc.). The price seemed reasonable, (as it also includes medical care to stabilize patient prior to evacuation), and it runs for 12 months (unlike most travel policies), and the benefit is also usable in the USA whenever the incident occurs more than 100 miles from your home.

http://www.geosalliance.com/geos-services/worldwide-medical-evacuation/

The exclusion for non-commercial aircraft is spelled out in the catch all 'Adventure Sports' exclusion. I found one other Travel Insurance policy that included 'Adventure Sports' (the insurance industry term of art), but it was pricey and only good for 90 days.

YMMV. Heed the fine print. I'm not an 'insurance professional'.

The Cumulus Soaring charts omit the plans that charge for every tracking point, but for those who fly less often, these are the least expensive plans, and can be less than $250 per year.

I use the InReach plan with the lowest monthly fee. With taxes added in, it is $12.20 each month plus $0.10 per tracking point.

5 hours of tracking costs $3, if the tracking interval is 10 minutes. If I could fly 30 weeks a year and had tracking turned on 5 hours each week, the total bill would be $237. That is slightly less than any of the plans with free tracking.

With this plan, the monthly fees can't be turned off, but even if you could, it would only save $6 per month. My actual charges for the last 12 months were $215, which includes some non-soaring tracking fees (winter hiking). The high month was July (R1 contest) at $27.

...david 8D

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 1:52:27 PM UTC-4, Renny wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:18:49 AM UTC-6, Renny wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:09:05 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > I have the recreation plan and that costs me $24.95/mo. That provides unlimited tracking and 40 texts a month.
> > >
> > > Last year I upgraded to the SE from the older unit, so I also have the safety plan ($11.95/mo) on the older unit for my wife to use on retrieves.. That allows 10 texts a month and will be invaluable if we're both in the boonies trying to get connected.
> > >
> > > Renny, you might want to update your plan because that extra $14/mo might not be getting you anything. :-)
> > >
> > > -Tom
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 6:32:25 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
> > > > Delorme Plan 3 (unlimited tracking every 10 minutes) the cost including taxes and fees = $38.72/month
> >
> > Tom,
> > I will definitely take a good look!
> > Thanks for the heads-up!
> > Renny
>
> OK..As we continue to beat this wonderful subject to death, let me recommend this URL from Cumulus Soaring whichcontains a lot of plan info...
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/garmin.htm
>
> Here is another URL from Paul Rende with contract info...
>
> http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/delorme/inReachSE-Aviation-FreedomAndAnnualContractPlans.pdf
>
> Now, one clarification regarding the plan I have been using...I do not actually have unlimited tracking with the Delorme 3 "Plan," but based on 10 minute tracking I would have to fly more than 102.6 hours in one month before I would go over my 8,000 bytes/mo that I am allowed (before having to pay extra), so at least for me, it is essentially unlimited. For those who fly more hours each month, or want a more frequent tracking interval, a different plan might be more appropriate.
>
> Again, Paul's excellent charts at Cumulus Soaring have all of the details..
> Thx - Renny

Spot's business practices do leave a little to be desired! My service renewed 4/27, I still haven't been billed, there is absolutely no indication anywhere I can find on my Spot Account page that tells me what the bill will be for 2017.

So I called the customer support number and this is what they told me: Gen 2 Spot users can expect 12 month renewal with tracking to be $164.98, a $5 increase over 2016 prices. Gen 3 users get socked with a much larger increase discussed at the beginning of the thread.

Grudgingly, I will allow the renewal to proceed, but I think this is my last season on Spot. The *only* things I like about it is that the Gen 2 unit fits perfectly on a parachute cross strap (my rigger approves) and it works where cell service doesn't (and that's quite a lot of my XC flying).

Evan Ludeman / T8

Does SPOT provide duplex text messaging with preset or newly composed messages?
Does the latest SPOT device provide altitude information?
Does SPOT offer Adverse Condition Alerting Service? (for a current flight plan)
Does SPOT offer Flight Aware flight tracking? (with or without a flight plan)
Will SPOT report on the operational status of their system? For example:
https://status.inreach.garmin.com/
Time to shop?
Jim

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
> Does SPOT provide duplex text messaging with preset or newly composed messages?
> Does the latest SPOT device provide altitude information?
> Does SPOT offer Adverse Condition Alerting Service? (for a current flight plan)
> Does SPOT offer Flight Aware flight tracking? (with or without a flight plan)
> Will SPOT report on the operational status of their system? For example:
> https://status.inreach.garmin.com/
> Time to shop?
> Jim
Half an hour on hold trying to cancel the upcoming renewal. What a terrible service. Still waiting.

I didn't have any trouble canceling over the phone, but I took the insurance route also- I changed my CC info to something invalid.

Looking forward to InReach tracking and text messaging this year, along with altitude and Iridium coverage.

Remove your credit card from your online account. Then the renewal will
fail and you can ignore their new-found customer service.

On 5/2/2017 4:22 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
>> Does SPOT provide duplex text messaging with preset or newly composed messages?
>> Does the latest SPOT device provide altitude information?
>> Does SPOT offer Adverse Condition Alerting Service? (for a current flight plan)
>> Does SPOT offer Flight Aware flight tracking? (with or without a flight plan)
>> Will SPOT report on the operational status of their system? For example:
>> https://status.inreach.garmin.com/
>> Time to shop?
>> Jim
> Half an hour on hold trying to cancel the upcoming renewal. What a terrible service. Still waiting.

--
Dan, 5J

Well, I thought I'd log in and cancel my account but it seems I can't.
My username/password pair doesn't work and, when I asked to have a reset
link sent, they said it was sent to my email account. It wasn't.
Hopefully I did not update my credit card information last time the
number was changed...

On 4/2/2017 11:51 AM, wrote:
> I just got notice from SPOT Tracking that they are increasing fees again for my next annual renewal. A few years ago, they added a "network fee" of $9.99 to my bill. That is now going up to $14.99. It looks like for tracking service, yearly fees will go from around $162 to $199.99. So another $50 per year.
>
> Flying out west in the mountains and Great Basin as we do here in Utah, we have to have GPS tracking devices. With the yearly pricing now around $215 per year for only basic tracking every 10 minutes without altitude reporting, is it time to consider one of the other better featured GPS tracking devices and services?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have been grateful for having my SPOT with me flying for the last 9+ years.
>
> The snow is finally melting...now if only the rain would stop!
> Bruno - B4

--
Dan, 5J

The InReach units seem to be larger than the spot3 units. I need to keep the device in my smack pack on the chute (if the plane and I should become inconveniently separated). Can anyone comment or relative sizes and stuffing the InReach into an emergency pouch on the chute riser?

Thanks,

Matt H

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 11:51:21 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> I just got notice from SPOT Tracking that they are increasing fees again for my next annual renewal. A few years ago, they added a "network fee" of $9.99 to my bill. That is now going up to $14.99. It looks like for tracking service, yearly fees will go from around $162 to $199.99. So another $50 per year.
>
> Flying out west in the mountains and Great Basin as we do here in Utah, we have to have GPS tracking devices. With the yearly pricing now around $215 per year for only basic tracking every 10 minutes without altitude reporting, is it time to consider one of the other better featured GPS tracking devices and services?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have been grateful for having my SPOT with me flying for the last 9+ years.
>
> The snow is finally melting...now if only the rain would stop!
> Bruno - B4

I just went online to my Spot account. I blanked out the card numbers and my name. I then saved the changes. Logged out, then logged back in. Went to my account and all the credit card information was again displayed!!! I now have tried several times to blank the card number out, but it still reappears after I log back on.
If they charge my card, I will notify my card company of the fraud they are attempting. Be careful as you may be getting a charge!
Best. Tom #711.

Turns out you can't cancel your account online - you must call customer
service and wait for your turn. Then it turned out that the account is
in my wife's name and she wasn't home. Now we'll have to go through it
again...

On 5/3/2017 12:50 PM, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 11:51:21 AM UTC-6, wrote:
>> I just got notice from SPOT Tracking that they are increasing fees again for my next annual renewal. A few years ago, they added a "network fee" of $9.99 to my bill. That is now going up to $14.99. It looks like for tracking service, yearly fees will go from around $162 to $199.99. So another $50 per year.
>>
>> Flying out west in the mountains and Great Basin as we do here in Utah, we have to have GPS tracking devices. With the yearly pricing now around $215 per year for only basic tracking every 10 minutes without altitude reporting, is it time to consider one of the other better featured GPS tracking devices and services?
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I have been grateful for having my SPOT with me flying for the last 9+ years.
>>
>> The snow is finally melting...now if only the rain would stop!
>> Bruno - B4
> I just went online to my Spot account. I blanked out the card numbers and my name. I then saved the changes. Logged out, then logged back in. Went to my account and all the credit card information was again displayed!!! I now have tried several times to blank the card number out, but it still reappears after I log back on.
> If they charge my card, I will notify my card company of the fraud they are attempting. Be careful as you may be getting a charge!
> Best. Tom #711.

--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 11:08:42 AM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> The InReach units seem to be larger than the spot3 units. I need to keep the device in my smack pack on the chute (if the plane and I should become inconveniently separated). Can anyone comment or relative sizes and stuffing the InReach into an emergency pouch on the chute riser?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt H

Our parachute rigger has made pouches for the (slightly shorter than the new units) InReach SE and added a hard point on the left parachute riser cover of a couple of chutes for us.
The hard point is (I think) about 3" of 1.5" webbing oriented vertically.
The pouch has 2" velcro on the strap. The velcro is sandwiched pretty tight between the webbing and riser cover so departure from the harness is doubtful. It will not interfere with parachute operation.
InReach functionality is great in that position. Even the old SPOT 1s and 2s worked there.
Jim

Why use SPOT with 10 minute updates when you can use a free service that uses your smart phone and has 1 second updates, including altitude?
For sailplane contests there is a 149 Euro charge for the entire contest if more than 3 days long.
Check it out at https://airtribune.com/articles/sailplane

Because I bought a spot so my crew can find me when I land where there is no cell service

Your wife is changing accounts into her name, and now you find she's not home? Keep the SPOT account running and put the thing in the trunk of her car!

I don't have a data plan on my smart phone.

I'm looking at InReach...

On 5/7/2017 10:23 AM, Soartech wrote:
> Why use SPOT with 10 minute updates when you can use a free service that uses your smart phone and has 1 second updates, including altitude?
> For sailplane contests there is a 149 Euro charge for the entire contest if more than 3 days long.
> Check it out at https://airtribune.com/articles/sailplane

--
Dan, 5J

We BOTH got a good laugh out of that one!

On 5/7/2017 2:51 PM, Duster wrote:
> Your wife is changing accounts into her name, and now you find she's not home? Keep the SPOT account running and put the thing in the trunk of her car!

--
Dan, 5J

Spot sends a text with lat/long. Data not required

I thought they were talking about free apps running on smart phones and
the phones sending the data. Do they do that via SMS?

On 5/7/2017 10:58 PM, Tony wrote:
> Spot sends a text with lat/long. Data not required

--
Dan, 5J